Episode 101 - From Pain To Zen: The Art Of Acupuncture With Dr. Jenelle Kim (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 101.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are welcoming back the fabulous Dr. Jenelle. Kim. Dr. Kim. She was with us sometime last year, episode number 62. She came in and we chatted all about traditional Chinese medicine and her book my Jung Sung, the Korean art of living meditation, which I have heard is doing very well and we'll get into all of that. But just to give you a little insight. Dr. Janelle Kim is a prolifically cited wellness expert that has been featured in Forbes allure, meditation magazine time GMA and more. She is devoted to integrating the philosophy, ancient medical wisdom and expertise of East Asia, with the advancements of modern life and medicine of the West to touch and positively affect the lives of others. Dr. Kim is a doctor of acupuncture, which is what we are going to get into today. She's nationally board certified or biology and our biology, oriental medicine and acupuncture. Dr. Kim completed her extensive training in East Asia and are some of the most respected doctors in the field of oriental medicine, and is the custodian of her lineage proprietary by bung formulas. So much could go on and on and on with your accolades and your accomplishments and everything. But we are so excited we our last conversation, we talked all about traditional Chinese medicine and, and your book and everything. And we were just really excited to get into acupuncture with you. So welcome back. And that's what we're going to do today. Thank

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:58

you so much for having me back. I also really enjoyed my time last time, and I know we ran out of time. So it's awesome to have a chance to extend our conversation. So thank you for that.

Amy: 2:08

Good to see you. We've seen your quoted recently, Katie found the article, I think it was in Forbes and the New York Times and I think it was about your book. So we'd love to hear how the book is and what you're seeing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:20

Yes. So grateful. It's been a little over a year now it launched January 11 2020 2am. I getting all these numbers straight. And that is I believe soon after is when I spoke to you both and it has it's done very well it is in 10 different countries and different languages right now, which is really, really special. That really meant a lot to me to know that so many people around the world are resonating with these principles don't pass down my lineage for so very long principles of the Dow and mindfulness for all of those who may not be familiar. And last week, yes, it was number one on Amazon, for mental health and spirituality. So it just means so much. One of my greatest wish, in short, is that these principles can be applied right away. You know, it is about I call it living meditation, as we talked about last time, so I don't think we have to get so far into it unless we wish. But you know, we hear so much about meditation now, which is amazing. 20 years ago, if you talk about meditation, people would look at you, you know, kind of blank stare. And now it's the best thing and I'm so grateful for that. But these principles, the medicine, the movement, I call them, the three pillars are things that have been passed down by our ancient sages masters from these ancient practices, and they all hold a similar principle. So whether it's from India or Korea, you know, the it's the cultures and the people who have been in existence for so very long, and the ways with which we can incorporate tools that can help us everyday no matter what's going on. And I call them the three M's. So acupuncture fits in that as well, or Balaji. It's the medicine pillar, movement. And meditation, which is a living meditation. Meditation is every moment of your day. It's not just when you sit down to meditate or, you know, do certain practices, it extends truly that kind of thinking it's a training. I've started to call it actually a training, not just we train our bodies, I moved on to start to really embrace that we of course, train our minds. But furthermore, I believe, very strongly, we also train our spirit, not that we are able to train our spirit, something I've been thinking about a lot because it feels that was very active and dynamic. And that is what living meditation mean, Jung Sung, the book and the principles are all about as we have to constantly it's a constant. And if anyone thinks it's not, you know, I have news for you, whether you like it or not it we have to constantly be a part of that. And so when I say train your spirit, your spirit is there, you know, and that can be a whole other conversation. But we have to train ourselves to connect to that, you know, that's when we start to feel disconnected from ourselves, Mind Body Spirit, disconnected from each other, disconnected from the universe, nature around us. So that's kind of why I believe it has started to spread These principles in such a way I know how much they helped my life and what I've seen my entire life. And yes, I'm really grateful in the last year that people are finding it helpful. The best thing I hear is when people come to me and say Dr. Kim, Janelle, that just made sense. It made sense. And it's helping. That makes me happy.

Unknown: 5:17

That's amazing. I'm so happy for you with all this success. And I saw that you're doing a lot of retreats and you're and you're teaching us and you just did something with the Diane Von Furstenberg with her Was it her daughter that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:30

granddaughters? So I mean, it's so amazing. She is such an icon, Diane Von Furstenberg, someone I've always looked up to just such an inspiring woman and really cares. And she started this platform, if you will, this community called in charge, and it's really neat. So you'll have to check it out. And it was the very first wellness day. And we opened with young son moving meditation, which is one of the three pillars that movement, but it incorporates the principles, the philosophy and the movements based in Chi Gong, right. And so similar to the understanding of acupuncture, Qi, Gong, martial arts, even yoga, they may speak of it a little bit differently. It all, how can I say it all, as a way to make flow through your meridian? Right? Your body to make everything function properly. And that's the ultimate secret to everything, right? Youth health, life. And so those movements such a neat thing, actually, I just was in New York, and was part of the international aesthetic spa and cosmetic conference, I ECSC. It's one that I went through 20 years ago, when I first started in the beauty business, right? For those of you who do not know, I formulate products, you know, based on the herbal medicine that's been passed down. But it was so excited, citing because it was one of the first places I ever spoke 20 years ago on formulation and medicine. And this time when I was in New York, it was just last week, I believe, maybe two weeks ago, I can't even keep track, I presented the movement as part of beauty and wellness. So it's just such an amazing thing to see, that are part of the world, the Western culture and society are really starting to embrace this. And I know it's going to make a huge difference in people's lives at a time where I think we all agree it's very needed. So absolutely.

Amy: 7:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I also really liked how you said in the beginning, that it is something you need to train, and it's not something you just do one time in your day. It's like an intentional practice. And I think it's hard to do. And I think it's good to remember that you're like constantly training muscle. To think in that more, I guess, intentional way. With all that being said, I know last time we touched very, very briefly on your acupuncture background. And we want to hear all about that, because we haven't done a show yet really to break down acupuncture and what it is how it's helpful. And it's you know, I've done it personally before and I think it's really helped me but I think for our audience, they'd love to understand more about acupuncture just generally speaking from like a really basic,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 7:56

absolutely. Well, I love that, that that you say the basic standpoint, because it can get very complex. And that's all good. And for certain of us that's very important to know our whole lives. We study this and you could spend lifetimes, right? But to me, those basic ways of understanding are the principles. That word I probably think about the most in my entire life and that but that's so important, because that's the way to understand our bodies. So yes, let's talk about acupuncture, how it works. But I encourage everyone while hearing this, well, however, I'm going to explain it right now. Whatever comes naturally and feels like it's resonating, but to also apply that in knowing our bodies every single moment because that it's the same thing, right? So one of the ways that my teachers taught me that I thought was a beautiful way to explain because you can kind of break it down and Eastern medicine. There's even when you get like I am nationally board certified in oriental medicine, it's funny you can you can do just acupuncture, you can do just herbal medicine, then you can do Oriental medicine, I think it's still this way and spend some time but when I studied and got my license however many years ago now that's the way it is. And so it's important to kind of understand that because I come from a lineage of apologists, and there is something in Eastern medicine, I say Eastern or Oriental medicine, it's all kind of interchangeable. It's all rooted in Chinese medicine. It came from China, but then even herbal medicine and acupuncture went to Korea, for example, Japan, and those practitioners, those ancient doctors, many of them very well known, such as Hojun in the Korean, you know, medical history of Eastern medicine, they took herbal medicine and advanced it, they took acupuncture and for example, Korean medicine is known for hand acupuncture, which is something I practice when I practice acupuncture, right? Japanese have a different kind of acupuncture, but it all is rooted from China. Okay, so I think that's important for some people to know what is the difference, but it all stems from the same principles. So when you go to East Asia, there's kind of this may be spoken about maybe not that there's acupuncture and herbal or biology, right. So you have the herbalists and you have the acupuncturist, in our society. I have noticed it's very it's more mixed, you still see that A lot of acupuncturists practice acupuncture and have some herbs and the herb ologists. It's seen in our society as well. But I like to kind of look at it that way, because both are very important, right? And then the way to understand acupuncture, in comparison to or in synergy with herbal medicine, is that herbal medicine is like the gas if you're a car, it's the gas, right? You need herbs, you need supplements, including food, to nourish ourselves to supplement we have to have qi and blood, right? It all comes down to this. Everything comes down to I'm pretty certain we talked about it last time, whether it's the medicine, the movement, the philosophy, everything in our life comes down to the yin and yang. And we could have a whole week of sessions, podcasts on that. But to break it down, First comes the Dow, the universe, right then is yin and yang, night and day. Yin and Yang is shown throughout every aspect of our life. That is the training, if you will, if you think about it this way as well, constantly balancing we use that word all the time. But what does that mean? So I'm gonna go into how that how that relates to acupuncture. But to start kind of from square one, there's even young, like I said, night and day, feminine, masculine, loud and soft. So you see young is also chi, right? So Young is movement, it's more, it's bright, it's light, it's loud, where Yin is your blood, your body fluids, for example, it is feminine energy, it is more quiet, you know, it's more complex. That's the truth in many ways. And so just as we see that in the nature around us, we start to see that in our own bodies. And what I love the most about Eastern medicine and acupuncture and herbal medicine, is that when you when I first started learning, one of the things I loved so much, that was a very special teacher, Alex to bear, he was very well known in the eastern medical community. He was amazing. And I remember him very much saying what resonated with my teacher growing up my father, that 1000s of years ago, they didn't have books. They couldn't study that way, how these ancient doctors, neurobiologist and practitioners understood the human body as they looked outside, you know, to some extent, right. So I'm very much simplifying this, but they saw the way that the trees grew the way the rivers would have flow. And they started to think I wonder if our bodies work in the same manner as what I'm seeing around me. And that's exactly the best way to think of it. And it's my favorite way to think about it. So that is what I like to share. So if we think of yin and yang, and our bodies are made of all of our internal organ systems, our muscles, our joints, you know, circulatory system, nervous hormonal, all of the systems within our body, as I just said, the Yin aspect of the yin and yang duality are the body fluids, the blood, especially for women, we're blood beings. And in general, men are more cheap. It's by nature, you know. And so it is very important to have enough right to supplement ourselves, and then flow properly throughout these meridian systems. And acupuncture uses meridian systems in our body to manipulate the flow of Qi, to make sure that our organ systems are fed to make sure that our muscle joints are working properly. And so if you start to picture to some extent, we all can picture the circulatory system, we have an idea that our veins or arteries run throughout our body in specific ways. Well, the same thing happens with meridians, you can sometimes hear them as channels, right? The acupressure acupuncture channels or meridian system, there's 12, primary eight extraordinary, I'm telling you a little bit more than maybe some may want to know. But that's important to know, I'll tell you why in a second. So you have 12 meridians that run through your body that connect to all of your organ systems. And your organ systems are also once again, going back to that yin and yang separated into yin and yang categories, there's ones that kind of very simply put, create chi, and there's ones that break them down. For example, in the the your the way your digestion, your middle functions, which in my humble opinion, and many in western Eastern medicine, your digestion is everything your gut is everything. You have your stomach and your spleen and Eastern medicine and they work together. Same in western, but an Eastern literally the spleen is yen and the stomach is young. And the stomach is in charge of, for example, breaking things down. Okay, that's the young, the actual load, the active, and the spleen is Yin. And that is in charge of taking all of the good chi, all of the good energy from the things you eat the air you breathe. So that's a simple way to maybe visualize how this works. So then you have meridian systems that connect, you have a meridian system for your spleen, you have a meridian system for your stomach, your liver, your lungs, and they all connect. So maybe some of you have even seen or it might be interesting, you don't have to study it or anything but one day just Google, you know, meridian system and see how how it runs throughout your body. And so it becomes that much more of a clearer understanding, I hope of how acupuncture and herbs and movement and the way you eat and the way you think start to affect the systems of your body. So the meridians run from your fingers all throughout your body, your head, your toes, I brought up the extraordinary channels. We don't have to go into all of them. But there's two that are so important, right and it's important because we can be aware of this in our daily life, one of them the Ren, the Yin vessel, the Yin channel runs down from the top of our head all the way down in the front, right? Okay, and do goes down in the back. And so one is the yen channel one is the Yang Channel. And on those channels, they're so special. There's literally points that connect to every one of the organ systems, right. And so you can see this a bit in other meridian systems, but it's very important, particularly in these channels, you start to even see chakras, right? For those of us who understand more of either Vedic or yoga, and how there's different chakra as well, that also starts to make that much more sense when you start to understand certain channels of energy of chi that run throughout your body. So I should have mentioned, chi is a huge concept that again, 20 years ago, I brought this up, people would be like, okay, Janelle, let's not get weird here. And now, everybody wants to talk about chi, thank goodness, because it's a part of our life. She is vital energy. If I did not have chi, I wouldn't be able to sit here and talk to you right now. I'd be like a blob just sitting on this chair. Well, that's one way of looking at it's the action, right? And so going back, so we have these meridians systems. And if we think of it as river systems, just like we see a nature that run throughout our body, we will have to make sure that there's constantly flow. So what do you need to have that proper flow so that everything is fed and nourished properly, a you have to have chi, you have to have blood, so a supplement health, vitality, and that comes once again, from thinking properly from eating properly from taking the proper supplements, herbal medicine, proper formulas that I talked about a lot, not just anything, because you heard it on tick tock, many great things that come from that, but you know, know the difference or educate ourselves. And so we have these meridian systems, we have to have enough gas in our car. That's why I was going back to so to kind of switch back to that for a second. My teacher once taught me that acupuncture and herbal medicine, herbs are like the gas in your car. And acupuncture is like the starting system, right. So it's like it starts your cart pushes things through, it helps to activate different acupoints. So now if you picture you have meridians in your body, you can imagine that by putting a needle or even pressure right or even movement, or now you know something that's not so much that I'm as familiar and expertise with is Reiki or different energy healings, many people are becoming more aware of you can stimulate going back to acupuncture, acupressure, certain points along these meridians systems, where, you know, this point is known for headaches. And so people will come with horrible headaches. And they will press large intestine for and you can feel it, it's kind of right between your thumb and your point your finger and right in between that web. And oftentimes when especially when you start to feel points, and she'll feel a little hole sometimes where you feel something catch. And if you start to feel even if you take that hole, Pat and start to just rub it, it's a little sore, right? Usually for most of us, well that directly that's a huge point. It's like a door, if you will both sides and on your particular when you start to touch it and people have horrible headaches, they it's like magic, like all of a sudden, oh my gosh, my headache is gone. Or when you have trouble breathing, one of my favorite points is right on the chest, right. So if you take two fingers right on your sternum, kind of right in the center, not two fingers, let's use all of them, makes you make sure to hit the point. And you press there and then kind of with a downward motion, because now we're thinking of chi. So for example, when we get heavy in the chest and can't breathe or anxious, and you start to feel that energy build, you know, you can catch yourself before you get there by feeling chi. That's why I love to talk about these things, you have to feel it yourself first. So even in those moments, you breathe in through your nose out through your mouth, and you press kind of downward on your sternum, that can also be a really sore point. But there is no one I have met who does not like that point being touched and that that basically supports and directly connects to your heart. They call your pericardium and Eastern medicine, your upper, your upper Zhao, and so it helps to direct chi. So these are the ways in which you can see that different points along these meridians systems start to affect the flow, right. So again, if we're river system, and the ultimate goal is to now have qi and blood flow through these systems properly through our circulatory system as blood chi through the meridian system, when we start to get sick from aging, normal process, when we get hurt, right from from a virus bacteria or we fall and we hurt something what happens is, if you picture these river systems, literally you've just you've just damaged that meridian system, right damage might be a strong word, but you've affected and so what can happen is whether it like I said, whether it's just normal process of aging, whether you have a stomach condition, whatever that looks like, here's your meridian, and now all of a sudden, over time, the sticks from the river, the dirt, the sediment, maybe some trash that has gotten into the river system starts to build up and you start to have blockages and so when things can't flow, it becomes stagnant. Stagnant is the number one bad thing in our life. In very simple terms, stagnation in our thinking stagnate You know, in our life, you have to have that flow. And so what happens is when you start to have blockages anywhere throughout your body, it's going to start to affect you. And you may not feel it right away, right, that's when someone has sprains their ankle, and they work through it. And they don't do acupuncture, they don't use certain formulas to help the body heal, for example, certain movements, and they let it be, and they believe that it is that much better. And 10 years later, now, for some odd reason, not so odd when you understand that this way, now their ankle, either having really bad arthritis, or you know, it's giving out a lot or they're losing strength. Well, it's because that area was never healed. It's that simple, right. So everything has to just constantly have that flow. So in conclusion, one of the best ways that we can do so is through herbal medicine to to fill ourselves up to nourish ourselves, but the herbs also have so many functions, of nourishing of breaking things down of detoxifying all those things. And acupuncture can do the same through different acupressure points through different systems of acupuncture study, and understanding. A practitioner can use needles on any one of these points in the way that they know that they're going to affect your body in a positive way. And it starts to open things up. And in the end, when people always ask, you know, Dr. Kim, what is the secret to youth to beauty to health to wellness, I always say it comes down to two main things, which is function and flow, everything has to function properly. And when we feed it properly, with all the things I just mentioned, so we're nourished as beings, that makes everything function properly, our body is miraculous. And if we give it what it needs, it knows what to do most of the time, right. And then you have to have flow, so everything's functioning, and everything's flowing, then you do not have sagging skin, you have a lot less wrinkles on your face, because you're nourished, you know, you don't have as much pain throughout your body. And that's, that's the way of understanding it very simply put. So

Amy: 21:55

it's so interesting, is so cool. I never thought about the meridians, and like the flow piece in that way. So that's a really good visual for for people to understand it. And when you were talking about the blockages, is that also related, you know, you hear so much about inflammation. So like, does that lead to inflammation, when you have blockages, labs,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 22:17

your inflammation and one way of understanding is just your body's way of telling your brain I have a problem, like Come quick. If you look at it that way. That's right formation is right. And so it's your it's certainly an imbalance in your body that's looking for help. So

Unknown: 22:32

I love that you gave us a few small acupressure points or things that someone can do for themselves at home. I mean, I understand the importance of, you know, if you if there's a problem, you should really seek the help of an acupuncturist and everything. But something as simple as being able to relieve a headache with that is is amazing. And it would benefit someone to, to maybe if they're if they're struggling with headaches or something like that, just to maybe Google the meridian system and kind of understand where these acupressure points are just as maybe if they wanted to get their toes wet, and then and then dive deeper and go into acupuncture. So it we just covered that it can affect every system in the body, and can then be beneficial for any and every condition. Acupuncture. Sure, if

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:22

you look at it, that acupuncture can balance imbalances. Absolutely, it can. Absolutely it can, you know, obviously there's more extreme conditions. But also part of the goal with really understanding our body in this way is to hopefully be able to catch before something bigger happens, you know, a lot of times these things, sometimes it happens and it's just, you know, it's just part of what you have to walk through in this life for a very simple way of putting it. But there are so many times where if you looked a little bit deeper, or you were a little bit more aware of your body, you could have caught something a bit sooner. And we do hear that very often on a very positive note, I felt like something was wrong. I went to this expert, they didn't see it, but I knew it how many times we hear the story. So I kept going, that's an awareness that's knowing your own body. And there's very empowering, you know, and very important to be aware.

Unknown: 24:09

Yeah, and also, you know, something to really consider if you are struggling with something and going through a journey and seeing Western doctors and you're in the process of trying to find a diagnosis or whatever it may be or you just have this concern, it can be a really great time to just go ahead and like you said, try to get ahead of it and start start with acupuncture. And also it's it works equally as well for things like anxiety and depression and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:34

everything very much. So herbs and acupuncture can make a huge difference in this. Especially after we all just kind of visualize this together of how everything connects in that way. You know, we because we are again we say these things a lot and one of my favorite things living meditation is to stop and think about what we're saying. Sometimes we all we often say Mind, Body Spirit, we're all aware of what that is right? But when you really think about mind, body spirit, it's that connect it like we are those three things. And so when mentally, spiritually, we feel an imbalance, especially when it's things that are a little bit harder to understand sometimes like anxiety, like panic, right, like depression, you know, I'm saying a lot of conditions right now. But we get the understanding, right? When we feel off that way, we have to remember that we can also affect those things physically, particularly with movement. That's one of the reasons why, you know, quite frankly, I didn't think I'd start teaching movement, this soon, I thought, okay, medicine, then the book will come out and later down the road. But guess what, it's catching on very quickly. And I know that the reason is that even through proper movements, particularly stemming from the internal art of yoga, of Qigong, which is what I very much resonate with, and start to teach. It also, as I said, before, starts to work with your meridian systems. So when you're feeling just like I said, You are aware enough to feel oh, wait a second, I'm starting to feel anxious. There are very quick ways sometimes the quickest is through movement, you know, through movement and breath, I really, really mean that, especially with, with feelings of anxiety, and feelings of grief, or fear, or any of the our emotions that can kind of overwhelm us to be honest, we really do have control over whether we feel like we do at times or not, we can learn to have tools to help us with those things. You know, so it's very empowering. Um, oh, go ahead.

Amy: 26:22

So I have a question that people may be wondering. So when I first went to the acupuncturist they looked at, or actually he did this, like every time I came in, yes, looked at my tongue. So what is that? What is your tongue tell you? Like? Why is that so it seems like that's a standard practice

Dr. Janelle Kim: 26:39

that a lot of the main thing is when you walk in to talk to an acupuncturist, or a bolus for that matter that they should look at, that they usually will look at as your tongue and your pulse. Right. So that's kind of a known thing. And Eastern medicine. So your tongue and your pulse, which shows all the different kind of levels of every organ system in your body, and there's different, so many pulses, to understand what's happening, but your tongue reflects what's happening internally, inside, right. And so different different, like, for example, this is one that people might find interesting, you go, and you look at your tongue, and you you can kind of know certain things yourself as well. So a lot of us will have if you if you look in the mirror, a red tip on the edge of our tongue, and that represents now understand this is different than Western medicine. But in Eastern medicine, we call it Hearthfire. Hearthfire, stems a lot from right, that or can lead to rather is the root of anxiety, you know, feeling of panic, feeling overwhelmed. And that is an imbalance, which, particularly in our society, I have a feeling a lot of us may have. And so, yes, you're, you can map out the organ systems on your tongue. That's what I'm trying to say you there's, there's a map, if you will, a system to feeling the pulse and the different organs. So it basically is a way for the practitioner, the doctor to see and not everyone, you know, everyone's at different places in their in their practice and their experience in treating patients. And that's very, very important. But basically, you can see the internal condition through the tongue and through the pulse. And quite frankly, one of my favorite ways that I was taught since I was I don't know, as far back as I can remember, and just part of natural life. But, you know, without I say, it's funny, I don't notice either in some way, but when you walk in front of me, you also look at everything in that person, their eyes, how that looks, their skin tone, and I'm not talking Oh, you look really, you don't you look, you look really tired note, it's deeper than that you can tell from someone's even their face, what's going on inside. And so it's kind of this hole. So I say if you stand in front of me, I just naturally, accidentally will always close you. And so it's not a conscious thing. But if you ask me, I'm like, Oh, yes, I already know. And it's, it's a really important practice, actually, when you do start to just pay attention. That's the thing that's so beautiful as a practitioner is our responsibility to know that I take that very seriously. But even as human beings, you know, take the time to sometimes sit, quiet yourself, calm yourself and, and really start to study in some way. Not necessarily from a peer trying to figure someone out, but really from just their presence, their feeling, you know, the eyes, show the soul and your spirit. And so a lot of times you'll see when someone you know is not having the best day or is not in a great spot. Something is amiss. That's a very interesting

Amy: 29:26

yeah, I think we noticed that because I mean, I think we observe ourselves in that way. But I think it's almost easier to observe other helplessly like if your kid Yeah, feeling ill, right because they look a little pale or they're like just you could just tell love

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:40

that actually, yes, particularly in our kids. And and let that be a reminder of how intuitive and how much we really do know these things. You know, we can't guess there's also let me be very clear, because I think there's a lot happening in the world right now where a lot of people are sharing things that although I'm very happy, didn't know we were I was going to go here with all of us today, but let's just do it. I'm very happy that people are sharing more in this world is opening, but also let it be known, there might be a lot of information out there that is not correct and not proper. And that does exist, you know. So I'm a huge supporter of people, it's important to know where it comes from. Right? So the acupuncturist, where did they go to school? How long have they been studying, just because they haven't been there forever does not mean that they're not have a certain gift or care or are very much experts in who they are. But there's something that comes with time and experience or who is your teacher and Eastern medicine, philosophy, martial arts, yoga, any of the ancient practices, people want to know who your teacher is. And that's something that in Western society, I have a feeling we're going to start to understand a little bit more, it's going to be important, and a time where everyone is an expert, it feels our code, right? I don't mean that respectfully, but we're talking now we're working with other people use their lives, like you don't mess around with that. Not that anyone even means to, but it's very important to know who you're going to what products you're buying, who formulated them, why did they what did they know? Even your skincare? You know? So I'd say that that is a huge thing that I think is important for people to be aware of.

Unknown: 31:08

Is that so? So those are great tips for helping someone find an acupuncturist locally because it is very readily available now, which is fantastic. I mean, we have multiple acupuncturist and in my little town, so what would you say are? Do you just suggest they just write up find out ask, you know, the questions you just mentioned, how does someone know that they're going to a trusted person? Yes. And

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:35

it is? That is yes, I love this question. I would, I think it's very important. I wish there was a perfect equation and there is not but thing is that, like I said, there are some people who are gifted, there are some people who even young have connected to a certain teacher or master. acupuncturists are of all ages. So I would start there, where did you learn from? You know, are you accredited? That's very important. I think nowadays, you don't have as much of that as you did. But at the same time, I want to remind us, you know, if you go to the mountains of China, I don't think they're going to show you some beautiful diploma, you know, and so let that be in the backyard seriously, you know, or sometimes even, you know, sharing and educating about herbs. I, I'm a huge proponent of studies and understanding and science, but also something being around for 1000s of years makes a difference. And if you go and try to ask the Korean farmer and the ginseng, you know, a mountain of Korea who's growing ginseng, and he's trying to find it, you ask him, if it's organic, he's gonna think there's something he has no clue what you're even talking about. Remember these things, but going to what you're saying, right? I mean, we have the perspective, it's the most important thing, right? But But ultimately, it is very important is going back to what you were saying, Katie, that you have to find someone who knows what they're doing, period, end of story. And you can find that out? Where did you go to school? How long have you been practicing? Do you have a certain Do you have a teacher? Do you have a route? I think that's really important. You know, it's one way doesn't mean they have to, but if they do have these things, there's a good chance that they're going to very be able to help you in a very wonderful way. You know, the beautiful thing about acupuncture. I feel comfortable saying I check myself of course. But, you know, in general, it's not as hard to hurt someone, you certainly you can don't get me wrong, it's nice to know at least that if you go and try it, you know, it's not, you know, something, if you take too much of a medication, and it's not proper for you, guess what, you're in a lot of trouble. And so someone better not terribly envy, yes, it's not terribly invasive, they can you can feel a little difference with your chi, which is not so great and fun. But you know, it's not the end of the world. So it's worth it to try and also see what people's specialties are. A lot of times, there will be certain people as as it very well should and can be that specialize in certain things specialize in helping with hormonal imbalance helping with orthopedic type of issues and imbalances, digestion, you will find people who just tend more towards a certain condition, if you will, doesn't have to be but but that's always a neat thing, mostly because they have so much experience in that. So that was the next thing. So where did they go to school? What are their their credentials? Right? Very important always. Also, how long have you been practicing? Usually, in general, it's the wisdom of things, right? If someone has been practicing for a long time, it means they've seen a lot of people. And there's something that comes with that. I don't mind that at all, you know, and then you try it, and then you're aware of your own body. So let me tell you, if you go to an acupuncture treatment, it is fine to be relaxed, calm. In fact, that's what you look for. But if you are feeling particularly drained a little off, you know, doesn't mean you go and get mad at acupuncturists per se, but just know okay, maybe that wasn't the most balanced and then also don't give up. Go and try just like you get a second opinion or go go somewhere else. Hopefully you don't even have to get there. But just know that we're all people. We all come from different stages. I'm pretty certain anyone you go to is going to care. I can't. I might be a little naive, but I can't imagine that someone would ever put themselves in that position without caring. And so you know, those are the things you can look got four. So

Unknown: 35:02

and it should yeah, go ahead. I was just, I was just gonna say really quickly that it should be noted, I've experienced acupuncture and I know Amy, you have as well for someone that never has. It's not painful. It's, you know, it can be a very relaxing, calming experience. And, Amy, after you ask your question, I'd love to, at one point get into just some of the benefits that someone should expect. But what are you going to say me?

Amy: 35:26

Oh, I was just going to make a comment. It's important about asking those questions, because which is really good. So at this point, acupuncture is very readily available on campus is wonderful. And it seems like now it's out, there's a lot of, you know, private practices, the person I went to is like a traditional Chinese medicine person. But then there's also these wellness centers, or people that do like chiropractic and physical therapy that have acupuncture. So there, which is like, great, I think, because it's integrating that practice into more maybe traditional ways of healing. But those backgrounds might be a bit different, right, than like the TCM CCed methods. And does that matter? Or is it more just like asking the questions and making sure that they're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 36:14

absolutely, I appreciate you bringing this up, because there is a difference. And let me just put it this way. My master's, I finished everything a bit quick, quickly. But you have to have a bachelor's, first of all, if I remember correctly, don't mark my words, it's been 20 years, and we have to have undergrad school, and then you go to study acupuncture. And when you get your Masters, I'm pretty certain gosh, I should have thought about this first, but it's at least three years, three to four years of schooling. And then on top of that to your doctorate is so I did not finish school until I was what 35 I mean, let's be clear here. Some of the other practitioners out there who want to incorporate acupuncture into their clinic does not mean maybe there's someone who is just naturally gifted and connects with it, maybe they have a certain teacher, and they're not necessarily an acupuncturist. But a lot of people can go to school right now, and spend X number of hours, like a couple of days and have some kind of acupuncture certificate, you know, forgive me, I don't I'm not as into acupuncture oil in this way. But I think you're onto my drift here, that there's a big difference between going and having a couple of seminars, versus this getting two years of study of acupuncture, and that's your, your focus. And that does exist. And that does occur.

Amy: 37:27

And I think that's a really good watch out for our listeners, because you really want to look at their background. So you're comfortable that this person has been studying it for years, and they're not taking like a weekend course and learning how to do because you're right, that probably does happen with places that want to just integrate that in. So it's a, it's something

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:46

and many of them might have, this is the beautiful thing about acupuncture, going back to that understanding of how our bodies work, you know, it could just be that you stimulate a few points and all of a sudden it makes the flow happen and open to the dam, and you feel so much better. So it's not that it won't necessarily help you. But there's a difference.

Unknown: 38:04

That's it's interesting. And so the some of the benefits, I'm just curious, aside from let's say, you go to an acupuncturist for hormonal imbalance, and they help you with that. Does does acupuncture has a whole bullet? Will it do other things? Will it help with other systems just naturally start to balance all of those meridians? Or is it so targeted?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:28

No, I would actually it's it helps to the way I treat, right. So I at this point, I was focused more on herbal medicine as comes from my lineage. But in in clinic, when I did treat what I do find moments to treat now and again, and most of the teachers and very, very well known acupuncturist that I am aware of you treat root, right? So that's the whole point of Eastern medicine, you always look at the root. So one thing I wanted to say before is when you walk into clinic, there might be other things that occur and that diagnosis section of your time with with whatever acupuncturist or practitioner, they will feel your pulse, they will look at your tongue, they may do other things. But then there's a series of questions that they go through, that are really important to pay attention to these are things that you as a human being should be paying attention to all of the time. How are you sleeping? What is your sleep light? If you wake up? When do you wake up? Is it you have trouble falling asleep? Or do you wake up in the middle of night? All these things mean something? How you use the restroom? How many times a day? You know what I mean? What does that look like? I mean, it actually gets very specific and I speak no out now more as a doctor, but those things are really important to understand and to keep track of yourself. So that's one way I want to answer your question Katie is it is very much it's all stepped because you look at the root of the issue. Right? And so it very much can treat symptoms as well but different than, you know modern medicine and that it just treats the symptoms and does not always get to the root to try to balance that to begin with. And so when you think of it that way, that particularly a lot of the practice or cuz I know myself included, that you may come with something that you might be so specific. And I'm going to you know, you have you have a rash on your face, right? And I'll start to treat your digestive system. Right, I'll start to treat your middle. Because while you have and with, with the formulas I created as well, that's exactly what happens. You come to me you say there's a certain thing, where is it on your body? I see it for a minute, I can tell what kind of properties is it? You know, is it more internal? Is it something that kind of aggravated you externally all those things matter, for example, but there's a very good chance I will be treating your entire condition, because that is what's going to actually make it rebalance itself, if that makes sense. So when you think of it that way, I would go so far as to say I can't think of one condition that acupuncture and herbal medicine cannot in some way positively affect not one, you know, there are certain things and also I'm a huge proponent, let it be known, this might shock some people. I'm a huge proponent of Western medicine as well, but know when to use it. That's the thing, we can point all the fingers, we want, you know, but at the end of the day, your point one, three are pointing back at you, one of my favorite thing is like you have to know what you're doing. You cannot just go to your experts, they they should have a responsibility. And really hold that very, as a very important thing in life. However, you have to know your own body, like always goes back to that. So there's a time for Western medicine. When you need antibiotics, you go get antibiotics, when an incredible thing that modern medicine we have today. But don't just take antibiotics, because you know, you have a cough. I mean, even modern medicine would tell you now go home and people get mad like, No, that's a beautiful thing that they're teaching you right now. So it's just that balance. But yes, in the long run, pretty much you can treat anything, treat the wrong word, it can help to rebalance anything.

Amy: 41:48

Yeah. So I have a question. For the average person who wants to go to to acupuncture, let's just do a few scenarios. So like I was going for, for quite a long time as it was part of the pandemic, and then everything, you know, I couldn't go in session, but because I have similar migraines, and I found that it really helps with just like balancing out. So every time I'd go, I'd be like, this is bothering This is bothering me, or nothing's bothering it was more for maintenance, which I thought was really helpful, um, added a habit and they issue back however, for that for for someone who maybe has an autoimmune or like chronic condition, is it? Is it a good idea to go to acupuncture is like maintenance? And it's what does that look like? Is it once a month? Is it once a week? And then for other people that maybe just have like shoulder pain or something very specific? Like, what does that look like? Because I know some people could go to acupuncture once and be like, Oh, it did, right? Which is ridiculous. Because they have to you need to go at times in order for it to take effect. So if you could just talk our listeners through that a little bit, I think

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:46

absolutely. So first of all, what you said I love, I love reminding people, including myself, our bodies took this much time to get to have this imbalance, you have to give it a little bit of time to rebalance itself, right. And so. So I think that's a very important thing to acknowledge. And to know, sometimes you can go to an acupuncturist, and within the first time you feel huge difference, and it's lasting. So let's put that out there as well. But yes, it can take a little bit of time, it really depends on every single person, and every single imbalance or condition that you have, you know, and that's, it seems like so redundant, but that's because it's just the truth. You know, so you are with issues with sleep, you may go with, you know, mental emotional type of imbalances, your anxiety, your, you know, you may go with shoulder pain, and it just truly depends on how your body is able to rebalance itself, how open you are to how much how many years you've had this, those things do make a difference. And so there isn't just one way. So it just the mere nature of being human means that no matter what we do, we can eat the very best we can have the perfect sleeping schedule, whatever that is, you can make a point here we can we can live a you know, relatively calm life and all these things will make a huge difference. But the nature of being human means we are getting young, it means we will always have good, but we will always have bad, you know, period if you look if you really break it down. So it's very important for us to take care and maintain. So even if we say preventative medicine, okay, I totally agree with that. But maybe it is just a maintenance of making sure we're constantly nourished and supplemented, and whether that is through acupuncture herbs, because remember, they kind of they, they can do similar things different, same, same but different. But we're so for example, for myself, I incorporate a lot of herbal medicine into my life. I'm a fairly healthy person, I'm very aware and very conscious of how I live, eat all the things. One of the most important I was actually just speaking to a girlfriend yesterday, which I say that you know, with love, and I highlight that because sometimes it's the people closest to you that you don't really have these conversations because it's just the nature of humanity and how we relate to each other. But we gotten to this conversation and I mentioned to her I think maybe the most important thing, one of the most important things in life is eating properly. And it's Simple, it doesn't have to be so extreme. Yes, don't eat a lot of greasy fatty foods, you know, don't eat a lot of fried foods, for example, eat a balanced diet. But one of the most important thing is in our health, I'm sorry, I know I'm going off a little bit, but here's our time together, is you have to eat consistently. You know, that's one of the most important thing isn't Eastern medicine to eat consistently, I enjoy two meals a day, it works for my body, if I wake up, and I'm really, really hungry, guess what, I'm going to eat something, you know, and then that's how we have to look at things. But eating is so important. Then on top of that, like for maintenance of our health, our youth, our beauty, all the things are Mind, Body Spirit. So and then maybe, maybe seasonally, seasonally is a great way, if you're feeling really great, how do I incorporate these things when seasonally is always a good, good time to do it? Right. So when the seasons change, maybe you go and you get acupuncture, you know, maybe you take a regimen or herbal formulations, internal, you know, even the skincare that I formulate for companies, you know, around the world, ultimately, a lot of those body lotions will have certain herbs that detoxify you throughout the day. So it's incorporating things into your life that will help you now if you have an actual condition, go and then depending on that practitioner and how they're going to treat you, they should give you an idea of how many treatments you're going to need. Usually in the beginning, you'll have a lot more, maybe you'll come multiple times in one week, maybe you'll come two times for a couple of weeks. And then it'll start to taper off a bit where it's more of a maintenance. Right. And so that's kind of what that looks like. As far as acupuncture.

Unknown: 46:30

Yeah, I love the idea of adding for those that that are just, you know, in kind of like a maintenance phase of adding acupuncture in seasons. As things shift and change, I might try that because it's true, this season changes always kind of just messily as

Amy: 46:45

as they do affect your body. Absolutely. Yeah,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:48

maybe it's a strange way of saying it, but as it should, meaning it's part of nature, you know, these things happen, it's part of time, and I feel like even when it comes to hormonal imbalance, something else I was talking to someone recently, you know, and going through menopause, I feel like we make it such a horrible thing. I'm just gonna say it for all of us. Oh, no menopause. So like, by the time even get there, your body's already so heightened and afraid and everything's off balance, you probably manifested a million more symptoms than you even need it because you were so scared. We all understand this. Let's just say it for all of us. But if we start to even start at certain points in Herbalife to realize you know it, it is part of nature, for a moment in time, I might feel a few things and it is going to be okay. And I'm going to be aware of my body, I'm going to know that by taking certain supplements, by eating properly, especially during that time, by giving myself a little bit more nourishment and awareness, I can kind of go with that flow doesn't mean it's always going to be you know, the most enjoyable experience. But just you can just feel right now coming into it a little differently, how much that's going to help because remember our hormones and our brain, they're very connected. Right, and she you can look at it that way too. And so it's just that it can be so powerful in and of itself. So

Amy: 48:05

yeah, I was also gonna say, just for for people listening, just so you know, or at least my insurance and a lot of people that I've spoken to insurance covers acupuncture, which a lot of people don't know, which I think is amazing, because it does show the value in it, and you're not paying out of pocket for all of this. So I know many insurance companies cover acupuncture, which I think is fabulous. And one other just slight anecdote, which I probably told Katie before, but and I'm sure those who are listening to this podcast already are believers in a lot of these things. But for people who are like a little bit like, Oh, that's too Whoo, that doesn't work, like whatever. I wanted to acupuncture once. And I was like, my period was late. I'm so bloated. I just felt like, just bloated and like full. And I knew my period is coming, but it like was late or stagnant. So I said to my eyes, were just stagnant. Exactly. So he's like, Oh, I just feel like balloon and like, whatever. So he forgot even where he did it next day. So I was like, okay, there you go. Like that, to me was such a turning point. Not that I didn't like I was an introvert before, but that was like very, it was very specific. And so I've told a lot of people that because like, that was clearly because he treated Yes, absolutely. You know, it was pretty direct way

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:20

of saying, you know, you make things flow. I mean, I don't mean to but like, yeah, it wasn't like a

Amy: 49:25

situation. It was like one day Yeah. And the next day, I'll get

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:28

great examples to that time a month for women to understand the feeling of stagnation. And then when things start to flow, and then what happens I mean, that is actually really a very good example to be aware of that. That is that is how it works with our body and all the systems not just you know that particular time, but in our life, all of it, but you can feel it. You know, PMS is a time of stagnation period.

Amy: 49:53

You know, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. We could talk about this forever, but I you know, you have limited time. And we appreciate all the time you've spent with us. And we asked you, we went through a rough session last night. So I'll just ask you one question from our obsession, because this could always be changing. So what is your latest favorite wellness or beauty?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:11

My latest favorite wellness or beauty hack? Oh, gosh,

Amy: 50:14

I can't remember last time remember either you said it was okay. Right now

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:19

in my life, like right this moment? What comes to mind because I am practicing it is my movement that goes back to that right now that is very, very important in my life, because like I said, It directly affects when no matter what, if I wake up in the morning, I have 15 minutes of movement that I will start to share more on my platform. I know I say this, and then everyone's like, Well, where do I go, you know, and it can be striking I write there's a specific sequence, one of which I do have up on my website, I promise I will make more soon. But they're quick. They're quick, very proper movements that have been passed down for centuries, because they can quickly affect your body. And so that, to me, is a beauty activity. Because when you're stressed, when you are tired, your chi goes off balance all the things we just talked about. And as simple Chi Gong type of movements can make you feel like a totally different person in five to 10 minutes. I mean, are breathing it has a lot to do very least just sit down I just posted something on my social where just stop and breathe for a second that is so important. You know, even that noise is really funny. I was thinking about this last night because I what do I want to share because there's something people really resonated and loved the breathing exercise. And something that can be really important. Maybe the people around you are not going to love it that I'm sharing this with you. But that stagnation. I were like ready to leave and I'm opening up a hole I promise I'll be quick. But stagnation, no Ilana whenever the best quickest ways to kind of diffuse stagnation in our body which causes liver Qi stagnation livers are general and so you can tell when someone comes in, you're like, oh geez, here we go. Very liberties that person is you can sigh like, it sounds funny, but that directly affects your body. Right? So that's why he's physically with our breath, we can totally adjust our body and when everything's flowing and we're a little less stressed, then it directly affects how we look or beauty or wellness or health. And then of course I have to say I mean the formulas that I create I'm so very grateful for my own career and job that I do because my my bathroom looks like my lab and I'm constantly using different herbal formulations and ingredients. So that will always be so I love right now I'm loving a serum I think a serum is very important in our beauty regimen. So there you go some Chi Gong young son moving meditation and

Unknown: 52:43

love. Well, Dr. Kim, thank you so much for your time it was such a pleasure to see you you always bring us so much positive energy and so many great tips and so much loaded with so much advice and knowledge so we really appreciate your time and I know our listeners will love learning about acupuncture is a topic we have not touched at all. So it's a lot of fun to get into. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 53:04

I love that it's my absolute pleasure. I'm so so happy to spend time with you both and to share all that I can

Amy: 53:11

love it. Thank you so much stopping recording. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

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