This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 62 - Do You Know What Chi Means? We Didn’t Either. Breaking Down Traditional Chinese Medicine With Dr. Jenelle Kim.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Janelle Kim. She's a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, a ninth generation doctor and herb ologists, which is very cool. We're excited to hear what that means. And the founder and chief formulator at J. B. K wellness labs, Janelle helps her patients incorporate Eastern philosophies into western lifestyle for optimal health. So I can't wait to dive in and hear what all of that means. So thank you for for coming to

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:05

having me. I honored to be here. And so excited for our conversation.

Katie: 1:09

Well, we'd like to start off with our nirvana of the week, just a little something that brought you joy today or this week. Just a little highlight. And I'm gonna go ahead and ask Amy, what was your Nirvana that start with you him?

Amy: 1:22

Well, let's see. Um, well, I would say so my kids go to summer camp. And it's been like a while June just with the end of school and getting them ready to go to camp and all the stress and anxiety and just craziness but they left for camp over the weekend. And it was definitely bittersweet. And it's definitely quiet in the house. But I would say my Nirvana was just getting those first pictures of them enjoying and having fun. And I could like exhale and be like, okay, they're doing, they're doing good. They're in their nirvana. They're running around. They're outside and super happy. So that was definitely my highlight and nirvana of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 2:05

That's really sweet. Because I feel the pressure and the stress of like saying goodbye to them on the plane, I'm sure for you. And this isn't the first year so it's probably getting a little bit easier. But to see them happy is I'm sure such a nice relief. So mine is camp related as well. The girls that for the first year are going to day camp and we dropped them off on Monday. They're there all day nine to four, which maybe isn't like the longest day for my eight year old but it is probably for research is for But picking them up. That was my Nirvana the first day and then hopping in the car like smiling ear to ear so happy. had the best time felt great about it couldn't wait to go back tomorrow. It's just like a sigh of relief. We're doing the right thing. They're good. So that's, that's nice. What about you to know, we're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:48

certainly all on the same page. Because right when you said that the first thing came to my mind was also my two young boys. And there is something about picking them up. I every single day, I get butterflies in my stomach. It sounds interesting or funny to some, but I have a feeling you both totally understand what I'm saying. And just see their little faces, especially the little one, you know, because he still hugs me and gives me you know, a huge embrace and tells me how much he loves me. And it's funny, because now my nine year old is kind of similar, but in totally different way. And it's so interesting to watch them, you know, at different stages, and it's definitely something I'm so grateful. It's very grounding in pretty much brings me into the very present moment, no matter what's happening in the day. So I would completely agree that that's my

Amy: 3:30

sweet.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:31

You have a night always nine and five. So yes.

Amy: 3:35

Nice. Yes. Awesome. I know. I love that. I have two boys as well. Yeah, they are 12 and 14, so are no more than 15. Sorry.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:44

No, tell me about it. I just turned nine and five. April and May so fast. It flies.

Amy: 3:52

It really does.

Katie: 3:54

Alright, so let's get into it. I'm excited to hear about this because I don't know about you AMI D I don't know a lot about Chinese medicine. And I definitely don't know a lot about our biology. Am I saying I'm saying that correctly? Right or biology or about to be in our biologist. So Dr. Ken, would you prefer us to call you Dr. Kim or Janelle or Dr. Janelle. But Janelle? Absolutely. So Janelle, help us understand, like, what are the cornerstones of Chinese medicine? And what does it mean to be an apologist? So

Dr. Janelle Kim: 4:28

those are definitely big questions, and I love them. So the cornerstone of Chinese medicine and understanding the body, the way I would describe it is understanding how everything functions and flows as one whole body right? So mentally, physically, Eastern medicine actually even gets into spiritually not so much like the outer realms of spirit necessarily, but that we connect in many different ways with our body. And it's how we, the way I like to explain it and when I speak around the world, is how we can make our body function at its optimal and flow. And that's how I would break down Eastern So it might not be exactly how everyone else does, but especially to the outside world who doesn't know so much about Eastern medicine. I love that explanation. And so then it utilizes herbal medicine, and acupuncture other modalities as well. We hear about cupping, and guasha, and all these different techniques that are now coming into the Western understanding. But it's using all of these modalities, these ancient practices that have existed for 1000s of years, again, how to make our function, how to make them our body functions, optimum and flow properly, because I always say, if everything functions and flows, even your skin cells, to your organs, to your muscles, and joints, then you have longevity, and that to myself, in my humble opinion, should be all of our goals. So I love that.

Amy: 5:44

I love that. So is it sort of like, and we're I think we're seeing we've actually interviewed a lot of people on many of those subjects. And so is this sort of like this Mind, Body Spirit, holistic Well, being when you hear the word, Chinese medicine or Eastern medicine, I think that's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:58

very inaccurate. I do every single aspect of it, because everything comes from, you know, Chief, everything comes from the universe. And we're a macro, we are microcosm of the universe, and the universe is a macrocosm of us. And so yes, when you kind of look at it that way, you start to break everything down. And it is very holistic in that manner. So that's where I said, you should go ahead, I think you're taking the risk.

Katie: 6:22

What is, yeah, help us understand what she is, I've heard the word. But what was amazing,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 6:28

because 20 years ago, when I started in the beauty and wellness industry here in the United States, if I said she people would look at me and wonder what in the world is she talking about? Right? So she, again, exists everywhere around us and within us, from the Dow or the universe, for those that resonate with this understanding, right from the universe came Qi first. And that's how everything breaks down, then we're speaking of the universe, and our bodies. One other principle, you're here that you'll you will hear about is yin and yang, right. And so I don't want to go too far into detail. But a greater kind of a bigger perspective way of understanding is that from chi, then came that symbol of yin and yang. And that is the dichotomy, that duality of everything in our entire world. And it's really important to understand that duality, that dichotomy of the two when understanding our human body as well. So what I mean by that is, we have our universe, for example, a very simple principle to understand, Yin and Yang is like day and night, right? Yin and Yang is loud and soft, even youngest, feminine and masculine. And within each is the other is they're constantly changing. And that's why if you are familiar, most people are nowadays, with that symbol, it almost looks like two fish, and on one side is black, and one side is white. And then they have two little eyes almost. And that literally symbolizes what I just said that there is constant duality all the time. And so now looking at the human body, we have that in our bodies as well, we have those components of yin and yang. And what I mean by that is, Yin is more substance, right? It's like our body fluids is our blood. Yong is activity. That's our chi. And so when you kind of think of it this way, you could almost imagine that, of course, the Western way of understanding, we have circulation, and we have our arteries and our veins and our pumps. And that's everything keeps moving. There's so much more of course to it. But we have that understanding, then Eastern medicine, one way to understand it is that chi is exactly what makes blood flow. That's why I'm talking to you right now. Right? So and when it comes to movement, which is one of the three kinds of EMS are the three pillars I talked about medicine, meditation, and movement, through movement, especially through chi gong, people can actually feel cheap. So it's not really something so, you know, it actually can be tangible. It's not something you necessarily see. But every single thing on this desk at tree, you know, you and I, we all have CI, and so I hope that's a easy way to understand she is. Yeah,

Katie: 8:48

I kind of took it as it's the balance of the energy and the physicality that we have within ourselves. And that's all around us. Is that absolutely kind of

Dr. Janelle Kim: 8:59

defined as vital energy, you'll see that a lot. So, so Exactly, right. Okay.

Amy: 9:05

So interesting. I never that that symbol, the black and white symbol, I think you just said it means chi, the US that yeah, the Yeah, I never realized that. I guess I've just seen that symbol in the context of yoga or meditation and sort of knew what it meant. But the way that you just described it totally makes sense with like, the, the black and the white. And it was very

Dr. Janelle Kim: 9:27

interesting. My favorite thing is to, you know, have things make sense. That's my favorite thing as well. And that's actually one of the reasons I love Eastern medicine and Eastern philosophy. It can be a little different sometimes from the ways in the western world about what we understand. But it always goes down to principle. You know, we're all human. We all are born into this world, no matter what our beliefs, what our ethnicity, what are age, all of that we all it all comes down to principles. And so I find that when I share those principles just as much as I enjoy, and it just resonates make sense. I see that No matter where I go in the world, so I'm so glad that you see that as well as well.

Katie: 10:04

Yeah. And what are the three M's that's part of your philosophy and your practice, right.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 10:10

So the three M's are basically like the pillars that hold up the whole house, right? And they are medicine, meditation and movement. And so medicine to me, is ultimately the formulation, my lab, everything that I've devoted my life to on the herb ology end, right. Meditation is actually the book I just put out, for example, it's the philosophy, it's the way of life, I call it living meditation. Right? So I'm sure we can go into that I won't go too far. But just as we sit down and practice different meditative techniques, or want to be in that certain mindset, living meditation, there principles that have been passed down my lineage for centuries upon centuries, of course, not just my lineage, but they exist, right for 1000s of years. And it's ways to look at every single moment with a certain kind of mindset, knowing that you will always have a choice, right. And so that's kind of the philosophy of life. And finally, it's movement, right ways to truly move our body, it can be any kind of exercise, but particularly movement, again, that's kind of been passed down by our ancient sages for centuries, as ways to really not just exercise externally look good, have strong muscles have a sleek body, but also to really exercise your internal organs and strengthen that chi. And so what I say are those three atoms, medicine, meditation and movement, if we incorporate those into our daily life, constantly, because that's the way it really is, then we can achieve longevity, happiness, health, balance, no matter what is happening in our life, doesn't mean we don't have down days or hard moments. But we realize that through that we can get ourselves out of it. Right? So

Amy: 11:45

I love those three pillars, because they're easy to remember. And it's something you can always think about, if you're just kind of like your Yeah, she is off or you're feeling, you know, just different, you could kind of go back to that which which I like. One of the things I was reading about when I was reading about you was that your father was a Korean monk, and raised this remote mountain raised in a remote mountain tempo, which is incredible. So I want to hear about that. But then there was something else that I thought was so interesting, where you said he taught you about, I don't know if I'm saying Right, right, but don't cheat or drunk on your thoughts. And I'd love to hear one

Dr. Janelle Kim: 12:22

of my favorite principles. So in the book, I break down kind of the practice or the way of life, the living meditation, it's my young son, just to be clear, the Korean art of living meditation, and young son translates as meditation. But to me at that living meditation, that's why I keep discussing that, right. And so the way I break down the book is into chapters, of course, but I call them keys. And there are eight keys. And those are the keys that we can practice in our daily life to achieve that constant state of loving meditation. Right. And so key number three, is absolutely one of my favorites, which is what you just said, Amy, it is stop being drunk on your own thoughts. And the Korean phrase is Don't cheat. And especially in this day and age, in my humble opinion, I think that if we all were aware of this, how much different our lives our world, our relationships, everything would be. And ultimately what it means is just like we can be intoxicated by alcohol, for example, we can become drunk, we can, we have to be aware that we can become drunk on our own thoughts, that it's, that's why I love that we started with that yin and yang. It's always a state of balance, and we hear it all the time. But again, if we stop for a moment, and really think about what that means balance, even looking at that symbol, it means every moment we have to be aware of ourselves or not, it's our choice. But if we choose to be aware of ourselves, we have to be careful that even if we feel so strong about something that we don't become, don't worry about it, we don't become so extreme in our thinking, How often do we see that, of course, we might not agree with something, and we feel know what you're doing is incorrect. But there's a fine line where all of a sudden, you're in that same boat, and you don't even know you're standing there. It's always important to expand our perspective, put ourselves in someone else's shoes, how do I know how that person feels? And I may not know completely, but if I stopped for one moment, whether it is our children, whether it's our spouse, whether it's a good friend in business, and I stop and think for one moment, I want to see where you're coming from, it does something to our minds. It's a self discipline that creates different habits. And again, at the end of the day, it's our choice if we want to take it to be dolci and become totally drunk and stuck on our thoughts. Not bendable. You know, it doesn't mean we can't be steadfast, right, of course, but just see the other side. And that's what that key number three, stop being drunk on your own thoughts.

Amy: 14:38

I love that that's so powerful. And I love the phrase that you just said, Don't become dodgy about it. Because I'm totally going to use that with people and they're not going to know what they're talking about the startup company.

Katie: 14:49

Does that also, does it also apply to like becoming drunk on your own thoughts of things that your self obsessing over like if there's something that you get Just incessantly or like picking on yourself about or thinking about something you're going through or constantly being in a negative state, is it? Does it apply to that as well, not just in regards to going back and forth.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 15:12

I really love that you say that, you know, you may be one of the first people who have brought it up in that way. So direct in that manner. And that's exactly right. We absolutely can can also have it pointing back to us that that, that negative effect, right, almost like the symptoms of getting too caught becoming too extreme. Absolutely. And so once again, we see how these tools, because that's what they are, you know, that's why I feel very compelled to share them. These are, yes, I am part of this lineage, I'm the first woman in this lineage, I'm the first to ever share it, you know, east and west, I probably should have shared Well, my father did grow up for a period of his life in the remote mountains of East Asia and Korea. It's like a movie, it's my own father. And it seems like that sometimes, you know, my mother, on the other hand, is American. So I believe, you know, I came into this world. Again, it was my choice, but but I've taken it on almost as a duty to realize that I am able to have that east west that I come from this lineage of 1000s of years, then a little bit more easy to grasp centuries of these tools that help us to see a little bit more clearly, and hopefully make them relatable to as many people as possible, you know, so I love and like you said, see. So

Katie: 16:24

it's really beautiful. And you are I love, I love the relatability that you're bringing with your books and everything as well and the one of the M's medicine, so that is where the the apology comes in. Yes. And so what kind of herbs is this? Are you using adaptogens, and things of that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 16:43

sort. So adaptions is something that I have spoken about for quite some time now. I will backtrack a little bit, that makes a little bit more sense for everyone. So of course, I was born into this, but it wasn't until Fast Forward seriously. I was a young adult that I realized, and it just hit me like that, that this is the direction I wanted to go in my life. And it was just like that you hear people say that I certainly had that experience. You know, it was that moment in time. And I had to make a choice. And that's how it felt to me. And I chose I was actually on the direction to study Western medicine. And I decided, You know what, my whole life, I've seen things and it didn't hit any kind of until that moment. I've seen so many things treated, or how can I say I want to say it properly. But I've seen so many conditions balanced, let's put it that way that people were not aware of or in my surroundings. And it kind of hit me as a young adult, I have to share this people have to know about this in this part of the world. And so that's where I kind of went into Eastern medicine and got my on my road to becoming a doctor. That didn't happen until a couple of years ago when I was about to have my second son actually holding that doctorate. But But yes, in our country, we understand Chinese medicine, I often refer to Eastern or traditional oriental medicine because I come from a lineage of Korea, right. And so of course, I've devoted myself to understanding Chinese medicine existed there before it moved into Korea, but Korea is known for certain acupuncture techniques and definitely known for advancement in herbal medicine. So just kind of putting that out there. Now in this country, we think of them kind of one in the same acupuncture herbal medicine. In East Asia, they're a little bit more while they completely come from the same route. As I've kind of already explained, you choose. And then this country you see that a bit to usually go like to the Department of acupuncture or to the Department of herbal medicine and my lineage are we definitely have acupuncture techniques, secret ones as well that have gone through my lineage, but really my family my lineage focused on that herbal medicine aspect. And so to kind of break that down a little bit, answer your question in a moment about adaptogens Katie, you know, I speak around the world about different herbal ingredients. So important. We have so many I mean, every medicine to some extent, could be traced back to plants, right plant medicine, but also super important is the understanding of formulation. And that's what I really devoted my life to. That's what my lab does. We contract manufacture products from skincare, body care, internal medicine, meaning supplements, tinctures, you know, topicals, for muscles and joints. And all of that is really based on certain formulas. So of course, the understanding those individual herbal ingredients, but like the recipes, the perfect and secret recipes that have been passed on for centuries. And so that's something I think is really important and I've certainly, I hope I've made some headway. I believe I have definitely been at kind of the forefront in the beauty and wellness industry. Having people understand that in any product. Again, internal external topical skincare haircare you can have the best ingredients, but if they're not formulated properly, if the ingredients don't synergistically work together, it might not be as good as people may think. And there's so many products out there that are just kind of put together. I don't want to say thrown together, but that's what I probably should send. Right. And so so that's kind of the understanding of herbal Medicine. And then finally, you speak of adaptogens. That's something I definitely talked about for 20 years. 20 years ago when I brought this up again, that, you know, talking about herbal medicine was over everyone's head. I mean, I started in the spa industry. You know, we were creating products that were in four seasons, Ritz Carlton's, you know, all of the your beautiful hotels and resorts. And I remember being at the forefront of natural products, which first of all, it's hard to believe there was a time that natural products like people didn't even really get it. What are you talking about? It wasn't that easy to make them. There weren't a lot of options of ingredients, herbal ingredients, are you kidding me? People would come over literally and tell me, you know, Janelle, at the time, I wasn't a doctor, this all sounds great, but I don't think people are gonna get it, I'd get rid of the Asian thing. And I would kind of just look and smile. And I went back to you know, we're all human. And I know that what I have to share, if I do my job properly, it's going to make sense. And it's going to make a big difference. And here we are 20 years later. And you know, Korean beauty is the biggest, you know, beauty industry, basically, in the world and eastern and western, it's all integrating. So it's such a funny thing. And adaptogens were part of that. It's a way another way to understand. So adaptogen adaptogenic herbs can be traced like that word to like the 1940s 1945, if I remember correctly, but definitely in 1945 1947, around that time. And it was by Dr. Lazarus, and this understanding that there's these plants that help us to adapt, because when they grow in the earth, would they have to go through their adaptability, how they survived how they lived, when we put them into our body, it helps us to do the same. Create that balance, right. And that's, again, I can go into many details, but I think this is the best way to understand it. That's what an adaptogen is it helps our bodies adapt under stress. And there's a certain category of herbal ingredients that go into this category of adaptogens. Now, why I said 20 years ago, I I wish to utilize that understanding as a way to help people understand herbal medicine. That principle exists, you know, since the beginning of herbal medicine, that is herbology. And so if we want to understand it as adaptogens awesome. And I think we're still at the very beginning of that, you know, so I use a lot of adaptogenic herbs in our formulations, again, from skincare, to capsules to tinctures you name it because of those particular herbal ingredients in that category. Their ability to help us balance they're very powerful. A lot of certain adaptogenic mushrooms I speak on a lot. I've been reading a lot of articles about that, you know, mushrooms are a hot topic. And certainly there's different ways of understanding the different types out there. But I still think we have, particularly in our country, not even scratched the surface of adaptogenic mushrooms, you know, your ratios and Chaga and lion's mane and, you know, and then you have your beautiful your stragglers, ginseng, Angelica. I mean, I could keep going, but those are some of the important ones. So

Katie: 22:57

yeah, that's why I brought it up. Because there it seems like in the last few years, it's become just more prevalent. And, I mean, you see it all over social media, it's it's gotten to be pretty trendy, and it's found in a lot of really beautiful, natural clean products and people seem to be loving it. And that's, it's really the only verb out of the herb ology that I was familiar with. So that's why I started there. But I'm sure there's a massive abundance and you actually reminded me while you're while you're speaking about her biology, I was doing acupuncture years ago when I was living in the city and it was in the summer and I was kind of like intolerant to heat and my acupuncturist I believe. I believe she was Chinese, she gave me a tea that she said if I drink this tea will help my body to like, expel the heat that I'm not able to process and it it did. It worked. I loved it. I drink it all summer, really hot summer in the city, but I completely forgot about them.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:58

And that goes it's fascinating like our very first minute of conversation that there's there's hot and cold to you and then Yan Yan is more cold Young is more hot, you know, and you constantly have to balance that. Sorry.

Amy: 24:12

Yeah, what I was gonna say which was also interesting just for like breaking it down for for people who don't know the space as much. I think when I hear adaptogens or herbal medicine, I think of it as like something you ingest. It's more like like supplements and things like that. And it really just opened my eyes to like wait, that's actually in beauty products and so many other products not just like things you're ingesting for your health. So that was Yeah, I guess naturally those things are in other products. I just just really think about it that way about like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:48

a medical doctor correlation. You can have these incredible ingredients and you hear on many different platforms or ways of understanding for lack of a better way of putting it that it does it depends on how much it can penetrate right how wash your body absorbs it. And that's where I talked about that importance of proper formulation. Because when you ingest an adaptogenic herb it goes in it literally simulates through your digestion, right? And you, you take out the nutrients, again, if it's formulated properly, and it agrees with you, so on and so forth. And so the one thing with topical, is there is a little bit more attention that has to be put on that understanding of making sure it penetrates and absorbs into the body, if that makes sense. You know, so it's even more

Amy: 25:31

of a question. And this might be hard to answer, but I think our listeners might want to know, so if you were talking to someone about, you know, using herbal medicine for different things, like could you name something that most people would benefit from? Like, it's something they're ingesting for their health, something for their skin, and like, okay,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 25:51

absolutely learn hair. And so, please remember, like I just said, it's one thing to have just one ingredient, it's another to have proper combination, right? Because, and I will answer your question, Amy. But I really, this is really important, because often, or almost always, almost always, because there are situations where taking just ginseng, for example, you know, all by itself can be so powerful, right for energy, depending on what kind of gyms and especially for women's for balancing hormones, right. So there's one that I just named, but you have to be careful, especially when it's just one herbal ingredient different than some of our drugs, if you will, because those side effects can be a lot more extreme in comparison to most plant medicine, but plant medicines are still very powerful and important. And what I mean by that is you can have Korean Red Ginseng, which is one of the most powerful ingredients, I think now around the world we notice and in Korea that is so prized. I mean, one small root of Korean Red Ginseng could be easily half a million dollars, I'm talking about how powerful it is in the body. Right, especially for for example, as being woman on the phone today, balancing different hormones, printing, energy, libido, whatever that might be so many different aspects. But here's what's interesting, if someone who has high blood pressure takes a whole bunch of Korean Red Ginseng, it could be really not so good for them because it increases your chi and raises chi. And with with a high blood pressure is a really kind of easy one to understand. That's why I'm giving this example, you can see where raising your chi strong is not really the best thing to do. And so that's where I just want to note that. So Korean Red Ginseng is a huge urgency in general is one of the most it's Ren Shen in Chinese medicine and Ren is human. And so literally, if you look at a ginseng root, they say it looks like a human being, which is really interesting. If you look at it, you can see it like the arms, the head, the leg is really interesting. And that's how herbal medicine 1000s of years ago, that's how they came up with these names and this understanding. So that's a really important one. For hair one in general, would be hibiscus I put that in a lot of our hair formulas for skin as well. I mean, skin and hair are kind of an extension. It's kind of one in the same. But hibiscus is so good for blood circulation. Right. So I mean, there's so many more, but I'm just kind of calling those that come to mind Angelica.

Amy: 28:09

I haven't heard about that already. And so that's a new one. I mean, I've heard of it, but not in the sense that you're describing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 28:14

And then remember all your examples. Example For immune. Oh, yeah. Skin. Yes. So struggle is Angelica, you know, those are ones that you'll definitely find in the formulas that that I create at the lab.

Katie: 28:28

And I love that you're mentioning that you still have to be mindful and careful. Like even though these are natural, and they're herbs, they can be very powerful. I know not to completely go back to the adaptogens. But part of the reason why I'm so familiar with them is because I have to be careful because they affect your cortisol and I have a condition where I don't produce cortisol. So I actually can't really use adaptogens much like my other person could, which is kind of a bummer, because there's so many great products of the minute that I you know, read but but yeah, it's a good thing for the listener to pay attention to and to maybe check with your doctor first before starting something,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:04

you know, after Yeah, another great thing when you're out there looking for supplements like one thing because people asked me that often. And you know, we contract men, we work behind a lot of brands. And so we that means a lot to us, we keep that confidentiality, but you know, you kind of can see our stamp when you will see these formulas out in the world. But another great thing for people to do is to really look into who these companies are, who they're formulators are, you know because then you can start to trust a company. You know what I mean? A brand otherwise it is overwhelming. You know, there's so much out there. And if something becomes especially nowadays trendy, everyone jumps to doing it, you know, and

Amy: 29:40

so were the formulators is that noted on the packaging, because that's interesting. I always think of like brands that I like that I think have good ingredients from what I know but I've never actually looked further than like what lab is actually formulating. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:55

not always listed. To be honest. Usually you'll find if it really matters, I'm thinking of a few of our Our clients right now, usually you'll find that we really care about their formulas, their ingredients, they really have a purpose for that product. And now more and more you see it, because it resonates with people's everyone's kind of catching on, you look into their story, you know, who is the person behind it? Why are the happiness? What's their unique thing? You know? Is it high quality ingredients? That's a great one. Is it? I know some of our clients will speak on. It is the synergy between the ingredients, you know what I mean? And that is super key. So, yes, it is definitely something a good practice. Because again, I totally acknowledge it can be very overwhelming, stepping into a beauty store, a supplement department, whatever it might be, because there's just so much.

Amy: 30:42

Yeah, I was gonna ask that. If someone wants to go in their town or city to start utilizing some of these herbal medicine, what would you suggest? Like if they are already going to acupuncture would most likely that acupuncturist maybe have I know, my old acupuncturist that I used to do? I need to go back to this is reminding me had like, all these herbs raised on kind of what you needed. But like, if someone's not seeing an acupuncturist that has that as their like, where would you go to find good quality or charm,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:12

I mean, I'll just kind of make it as simple as possible. It is true acupuncturist will, or biologist, for example, they will look at your individual condition and really start to balance. Of course, every just like there's doctors who are so great and skilled at what they do. And there's some we're not as skilled. And so I want to acknowledge that the same thing happens with acupuncturist or biologists, you name it any kind of practitioner, right. And so that's a good way it's a little different. Like the formulas that we I create at my lab behind the brands are ones that can be handed out in general, right. So there's certain herbal ingredients like you kind of mentioned, Katie, I don't want to get too far into this. But it's important for people to understand that you know, if you have a certain cold, like, say you have a cold and what your cold is presenting as as a sore throat, well, technically, the way you treat that cold with a sore throat is different than treating a cold that doesn't have a sore throat, and you seem to have a really runny nose, I hope I'm not getting too detailed. But it's important for people to understand there's a difference in symptoms, because one cold has hot symptoms, that's the sore throat. And so you're not going to use a much a hot herbs, you know, too. And so that's how in depth herbal medicine can be. So for those types of more specific imbalances, cold is a little different, because we can put out supplements that can kind of boost immune system in general, right. That's a great place to start that kind of your acupuncturist or biologist, certain practitioners, you can then go to other places that offer it and really look into the supplements that exist and have people on the floors and what I mean is like Whole Foods, I think we have all over the country for the most part, especially east coast, west coast, right? Your your natural markets, I don't know if you have, for example, Farmer cup, but that's a great place and in the West here, that we have the I will definitely send people there when they're looking because the people I know that that are biologists, the herbalist on the floor are very, very good at what they do. It's very important to them. So that's kind of I hope this is answering the question, but you find good natural products store or if you're searching, if you don't have that option, and you are kind of looking online, do a bit of research and find I mean pharmerica is on for example, you know, I should you think I work for pharma guy keep saying your name. Because this was coming to mind right now. But that's where going back to what we just said, look into the story of that company, look into where their ingredients, you know, what matters to them. And that's how you can kind of narrow in on what works for you. And at the end of the day. Yes, so in Whole Foods. And I would have liked a bit, this is really important. At the end of the day, pay attention to how you feel is the most important thing. It goes back to that living meditation and those three pillars, you know, so often we look to our experts, which you should, in our practitioners or doctors, our yoga teachers, for example, and do that because they studied and they have, they have things to share. But at the end of the day, you need to be aware of yourself. So that means if you take what you think is the best ingredient and everyone says it's the best, and you take it pay attention week with something new into your body. And if after a couple of days or even that day, you start to have a headache. And you cannot figure out why all of a sudden, you know, I never get headaches and now I have a headache. I do not care how great that ingredient is. It's not balanced with your condition at that moment. And we really have to watch that the anatomy and then you start to become in charge of your own health. So I just wanted to say that super important.

Katie: 34:31

Yeah,

Amy: 34:31

yeah, we talked about that a lot on the show like really listening to your body and if someone is saying like oh, it's just this or it's just that don't worry about it. You're like no, I you need to. It's that mindfulness and that intense intentionality you have within yourself where I think a lot of people seem to be kind of chewed into that now, more so than before and I think people it seems like are asking their traditional doctor I was like, Well, what about this? Or what about this? You know? Because, yes, there's a lot more education out there. And there's a lot more people talking about, like attitude with the West, and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:11

even, you know, Western doctors, you know, yeah, you know, I don't know, I'm often on panels with, you know, Western Eastern. And I believe that any good doctor is just going to want the best for that patient, you know, and some of us, it's easier to get that advice than others. And that's, that is the way it is, you know, but in general, for sure. You see the world I, like I said, much different than 20 years ago, or maybe a little more when I first began and, you know, which harder path?

Amy: 35:38

Yeah, I hope that some of these more Western traditional doctors start getting into more, I mean, the good ones already do ask those questions that aren't outside of like, right, they're willing, because it really does make a difference. And they're looking at Mind Body Spirit, not just like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:58

the integrative cynics are a serious thing. I mean, it's happening, you know, and definitely, when you walk into certain Western medical doctors offices, you're definitely seeing doctors who are doing exactly that, you know, opening expanding their mind and recognizing, you know, these medicines have existed for 1000s of years. You know, it's so interesting when, because it yes, 1000s of years ago, they were not doing clinical studies. This is true. They did not put it down in that manner. But there's something to say, right? I mean, I think more and more people are seeing that now more than ever, especially after last couple of years, we've all walked through that there's something to say about these medicines that have worked on humans for literally 1000s of years. You know, so yes, there might not be this, what the Western Way, which is a very good way, don't get me wrong, having clinical studies, finding every single fact. But sometimes there's a little bit more to it. But that's holistic, also the way we look at everything. So there's three, absolutely. It's funny.

Amy: 36:54

Katie and I both had COVID Around the same time, and one of the things we both saw, I think was floating around Tiktok was, and I don't know if this is, well, I guess it's horrible, but it's different, like the oils. So it said, if you had no taste or snide, neither of us did to us. I think it was peppermint oil, and rose oil, rosemary, Rosemary oil every day in your nose and like she did it and it both worked.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:19

Stimulating to your tea. It makes everything function again. So it's an interesting thing.

Amy: 37:23

Right, exactly. Yeah. That was like, amazingly, yeah. And I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:27

think a lot of writers world is seeing more and more options is, you know, there's certainly some negative aspects which we're not trying to go down this path of social media and how small our world is with technology. But it does certainly at the same time, there's that duality, that dichotomy, again, of the yin and yang, are certain ways now that through being closer through technology and the internet and social media that we're learning these you just have to fact check that a bit, you know, in fact, that's one of the things that my team certainly has to say, you know, Janelle, Dr. Kim, if you can speak on this, do you agree or not? That happens a lot, actually. For different things, trends that we see whether it's a trend, or it's real, yeah. So

Katie: 38:10

that's, yeah, and nothing. And parents do that. And, you know, I feel like, we could talk about some much of this for hours. And I would really, really love to have you back to talk in detail about acupuncture. Because I think that is such a vast topic, right. And I've, I've done it, and it's worked for me, and I know so many people that have helped. So we'll have to do that another time. But before we let you go, tell us just a little bit more about what Jay JBK wellness labs does. And also, do you have Is it a branded CBD luxury skincare

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:43

JBK wellness Labs is not named after myself, which many people think is named after my great grandfather, those are his who was an incredible practitioner of herbal medicine, and acupuncture for that matter. And we are contracted manufacturers, which means we make the products behind the brands. And again, I kind of touched on that already. But you know, they're our clients are carried in your high end resorts and spas, to your whole foods to now actually they're having like prestige and luxury departments and target and Walgreens. And so it's an interesting way for exactly what we're talking about to be, you know, to be available for more people, which is kind of neat. So brands kind of spanning all industries. And so that's what we do in everything that we do is rooted in that understanding of herbal formulation, of formulation of products in general clean beauty, of course, you know, natural health products, of course. And so that's basically what JBK what we do, so we're not a brand, so we're behind brands. And so when you talk about the first ever Yes, I created the first ever CBD luxury skincare. I mean, basically I started the CBD industry myself in my lab with the people who started CBD back in. My first son was almost ready to be born so over 10 years ago now, which is a long time in the cannabinoid industry. And that's a whole other conversation to network. that I jumped into right away. But then another thing where I thought, you know, this is going to be something and I'd rather be educating about it properly. But I didn't really want to be like the queen of cannabis, you know, so, but an alternative. And so so not to go too far down that road. But that's so JBK we do a lot in the cannabinoid industry because we kind of helped to start it. So we were the first to make the sav muscle and joint role on so on and so forth. And all these, it's a beautiful thing, because every time someone comes to us to make formulas, it's always unique, it is truly the most amazing thing. So we, they come to us, oftentimes with an idea, they'll come to us with formulas that they kind of want us to improve upon, for example, or they'll come to us with a really important ingredient. I mean that and that's just to name a couple of examples. And then we formulate and then we produce the products. And that's the headquarters are in San Diego, right where I reside. Right now, we have a lab in Orange County. And actually, we have one in Portugal, in Europe for our European clients. So yes, and we just started actually, we're really excited about this, and I'm happy I'm remembering to share, because for over 20 years, I've been in this industry. And when you when I say contract manufacturing usually have to have higher minimums. So we don't have to get into all the details of it all. But in order to work with us, or to make custom products, you have to order a couple 1000 of one product at a time. And that's not easy for everyone. And this has been on my mind for a long time. And so over the last couple of years, and one of the things that, you know, during the pandemic, I don't always think of it this way. But it's the truth that we were able to create a JBK was a private label a white label division. And that means a lot to me, because what that means is more and more people are able to put their brand on some of our most favorite formulas that I've created over 20 years of my lab. And so, you know, that's kind of a big thing. And so I'm really excited about that. That's kind of a new thing that we've done in my lab. So

Katie: 41:54

congratulations

Amy: 41:55

for future when we come up and your bonuses, maybe the product.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:03

I want to create a formula to help women balance their, you know, emotions, balance their hormones, to have more energy, whatever that is. That's exactly how it starts. And people trust you and then that's how it goes. So

Amy: 42:15

I love that and what is your book called again? And where can people

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:18

you my book is called the young son, the Korean art of living meditation. It's kind of a long one. That's why I just remember Dr. Janelle Kim, living meditation, bright blue simpler. It's basically through Penguin, Random House and Watkins. And so you can find it on the Penguin Random house.com website on my website, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, basically, anywhere books are sold. So I'm very grateful that has come out, you know, just in January, so

Amy: 42:45

very excited. Thank you, Amy. Hi, congratulations. Okay, so getting into our wrap session before we close out. Janelle, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? I can. That's that's a hard one at my I do have so many.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 43:03

If I had to pick one right now, one of my favorites is remembering and understanding that true beauty does come from the inside out, you have to use very clean important products topically because it is our largest organ, our skin. But also we really have to pay attention to improving our condition internally, increasing our circulation, increasing our chi. And of course, to me, that means supplementing with herbal formulations. You know, being aware of my body knowing when to take certain ones. So I don't want to go too far. But yes, it's inside out which we're seeing much, much more in our beauty and wellness industry right now. So I'm so happy for that.

Amy: 43:41

Yeah. 100% Yeah, that's great. Okay, the next one, we call our five minute flow, which I guess could contribute to your CI. But here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pings you and says they're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:00

That's funny, right? My locks up. I have one

Amy: 44:03

you just got out of the shower and dried off. And Uber just alerted you there five minutes away. So how do you you know, what's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on what are your kind of go to? And I'm shaking my head or that's every day forget?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:17

Yeah, that's called children. And podcasts Even my kids had to camp at 9am which is exactly when we were supposed to be on so that was literally my morning. So I do I get ready in five minutes. And that's just the truth today. We're lucky I put a little eyeshadow for you ladies to look, you know, all dressed up. But the i Everyday I use my herbal toner. It is one of the most important products I think I mean, again, that's so hard. I have the whole I'm Korean beauty right so I have the whole every step. But I always use a toner in the morning if I don't work out rather than just washing my face. There's no alcohol, it's all herbs. So it's just basically, you know, cleansing with a cotton pad, but at the same time all those good herbs onto my skin. So that's what I start with. And then honestly, I like a little concealer because it just makes me look a little brighter and a little natural blush. And I go on with my day. Like literally that's that

Amy: 45:11

and are these all brands that you make in the lab so it's not like a brand skincare for sure. Probably

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:17

another one I love it's my later again, that's the I keep making a joke. It's the Korean beauty that is a Korean beauty hack and I very much stand by exfoliation is key. And so those are all products that I create my bathroom looks like a lab literally I have a little bottles everywhere. But as far as makeup, we we keep wanting to go down a direction are a little bit too busy. So I do I go for brands out there and the ones that I like, right now. I like RMS beauty. So very clean. I find that you know I don't like to reapply like don't look at myself in the mirror throughout the day because I figured what what in the world can I do anyways? This is how I

Amy: 45:55

layer your skin's unbelievable so

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:59

yeah, like a little blush just because I'm all skin tone. And that's about it. So and then maybe a little lip gloss. Some

Amy: 46:05

love that. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily your bond I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:09

love by the way, that that is what you call your entire platform on everything that you do. And so how to maintain that is through living meditation. I mean, we're totally on the same page living meditation is the ultimate goal of reaching that state of Nirvana that state of honestly balanced, we started this way and I suppose well, and this way that you know, everything comes from the doubt and for those who are not familiar with the Dow, I suggest that you become familiar in some way because it is a really powerful and was people love it. And it really is just the universe, right? And the universe is everything and nothing. It is literally that Enzo circle which is on my logo. It's that like kind of brushstroke and that's to me, also is nirvana. Right. So to that state of from nothing comes everything and from everything comes nothing. And so I am able to constantly keep purifying myself creating good habits, having a self discipline through living meditation, which is why I put it in the book.

Katie: 47:05

That's beautiful. I just want to say before we hand the mantra over to Amy that you can just you really exude Janelle such kind of peace and joy and you're glowing from the inside out. So you are living proof of everything that you can say. So we're really grateful for having you on. Thank you so much for for being here with us today. And I think our listeners are gonna love everything you taught us and, and really, I would love to have you back and we can dive into it. I'm

Dr. Janelle Kim: 47:32

really grateful to be here. It was a wonderful conversation. I would absolutely love to come back. So I hope that was helpful. That's for sure.

Katie: 47:39

Was Thank you. All right, Amy. What's our mantra we'd like to close with a little something to end on.

Amy: 47:46

Yeah, so I don't know if this is a mantra or saying something I found on Jay Shetty, Instagram, but it's very appropriate to what we were talking about specially we were talking about being drunk on your thoughts, which kind of stuck with me. So here it is. If you want to be happy, don't take stuff personal. Let stuff go. Let people be focused on you. Your mental health, your spiritual health, your well being physically and financially.

Katie: 48:11

I agree. Yeah, yeah. All of the above agreed, right.

Amy: 48:15

So thank you so much. Thank

Katie: 48:19

you.

Amy: 48:20

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.